[ptxdist] Feature Request: Option to install man pages

[ptxdist] Feature Request: Option to install man pages

[Carsten Schlote]

Hi,

right now I found a problem, when I try to encourage people to use
ptxdist for private or commercial projects - the lack of man pages.

I know, it is intentional to save precious memory on embedded devices
with usually small flash devices storing the firmware. 'Small' ment
something in the few MB range running compressed MTD filesystems.

The ability to create small rootfs images was basically my primary
reason to use ptxdist many years ago, when I had just 32 MB of flash for
all and everything.

However the smart phone boom of the last few years dramatically changed
the definition of 'small' - the smallest flash devices for our embedded
HW starts now around 2-4 *Giga*bytes.  And as smallest does NOT mean
cheapest, the standard flash device at work - right now - is 4 GB eMMC,
which will probably increase the usual 2^n steps the next months/years.

And with this change the following question is now poping up over and
over again: Why using a crippeled rootfs without man pages just to save
some few MB out of several 1000s?

So I would like to propose to add some global switch to the ptxdist
configuration, which optionally allows users to install docs. Docs
usually mean man pages, but options for info or similar would be fine,
too. And of course a set of macros for the targetinstall stage, which
conditionally picks up man pages at the usual places, when enabled.

This optional feature (even if it is used just for the primary
development and fieldtest stage) would be extremely helpful. Esp. for
those not knowing all unix commands by heart, or with fresh stuff like
systemd, which provides all documentation in form of >200 man pages. 
Right now people need to use a secondary virtual machine or a webbrowser
to read man pages online, which is a bit ridiculous. 

So I would like to add such feature to Ptxdist and volunteer to add
appropriate macros to the existing packages. At least as long as there
is some positive feedback for this idea at all. 

Your opinions?

Carsten



-- 
ptxdist mailing list
ptxdist@pengutronix.de

Re: [ptxdist] Feature Request: Option to install man pages

[Rüdiger, Christoph]

> The ability to create small rootfs images was basically my primary reason to
> use ptxdist many years ago, when I had just 32 MB of flash for all and
> everything.
> 
> However the smart phone boom of the last few years dramatically changed
> the definition of 'small' - the smallest flash devices for our embedded HW
> starts now around 2-4 *Giga*bytes.  And as smallest does NOT mean
> cheapest, the standard flash device at work - right now - is 4 GB eMMC,
> which will probably increase the usual 2^n steps the next months/years.

Our usual device configuration is 64 MB Flash at the moment. There are some devices with MMC outside, but just for application data storage, not for Root-FS.


> And with this change the following question is now poping up over and over
> again: Why using a crippeled rootfs without man pages just to save some few
> MB out of several 1000s?
> 
> So I would like to propose to add some global switch to the ptxdist
> configuration, which optionally allows users to install docs. Docs usually mean
> man pages, but options for info or similar would be fine, too. And of course a
> set of macros for the targetinstall stage, which conditionally picks up man
> pages at the usual places, when enabled.

Would it be possible to have the man pages in the sysroot folder for NFS usage, but not in the generated images for flashing on the device? In such a configuration, it would fit the needs for man pages in development stage, but you do not mess up the storage in your final product. However, I don't know yet how the different root-fs folders and the image files are generated.

Or add man pages to the debug sysroot, but not to the release sysroot?

Just my two cents,
Christoph


-- 
Christoph Ruediger
Developer

ThyssenKrupp Elevator Innovation GmbH
PDC Neuhausen
TKEI Elevator Control
Bernhaeuser Straße 45
73765 Neuhausen, Germany

Phone +49 7158 12-2615
christoph.ruediger@thyssenkrupp.com

Company domicile: Essen      Commercial register: Essen HRB 20 839
Postal address: ThyssenKrupp Allee 1, 45143 Essen, Germany 
Executive Board: Gerhard Thumm, Katrin Huenger, Philippe Choleau
-- 
ptxdist mailing list
ptxdist@pengutronix.de

Re: [ptxdist] Feature Request: Option to install man pages

[Bruno Thomsen]

> However the smart phone boom of the last few years dramatically changed the definition of 'small' - the smallest flash devices for our embedded HW starts now around 2-4 *Giga*bytes.  And as smallest does NOT mean cheapest, the standard flash device at work - right now - is 4 GB eMMC, which will probably increase the usual 2^n steps the next months/years.

Yes, eMMC seems to be the way many boards are going today. We have also switched from 2 GB to 4 GB due to LTB.

> Your opinions?

+1. Seems like a good idea. It's mostly useful when you get new application developers that isn't used to working on Linux.

/Bruno

-- 
ptxdist mailing list
ptxdist@pengutronix.de

Re: [ptxdist] Feature Request: Option to install man pages

[Alexander Dahl]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1068 bytes --]

Hei hei,

Am 04.03.2015 um 11:45 schrieb Carsten Schlote:
> I know, it is intentional to save precious memory on embedded devices
> with usually small flash devices storing the firmware. 'Small' ment
> something in the few MB range running compressed MTD filesystems.
> 
> The ability to create small rootfs images was basically my primary
> reason to use ptxdist many years ago, when I had just 32 MB of flash for
> all and everything.

And this is still the case. The main device we use ptxdist for (and
probably will for the next years) has 32 MB RAM and 256 MB Flash with an
actual root partition of around 40 MB.

> So I would like to propose to add some global switch to the ptxdist
> configuration, which optionally allows users to install docs. Docs
> usually mean man pages, but options for info or similar would be fine,
> too. And of course a set of macros for the targetinstall stage, which
> conditionally picks up man pages at the usual places, when enabled.

[…]

> Your opinions?

Please make it optional.

Greets
Alex



[-- Attachment #1.2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 181 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 48 bytes --]

-- 
ptxdist mailing list
ptxdist@pengutronix.de

Re: [ptxdist] Feature Request: Option to install man pages

[Guillermo Rodriguez]

Hi all,

El 04/03/2015 a las 11:45, Carsten Schlote escribió:
> Hi,
> 
> right now I found a problem, when I try to encourage people to use
> ptxdist for private or commercial projects - the lack of man pages.
> 
> I know, it is intentional to save precious memory on embedded devices
> with usually small flash devices storing the firmware. 'Small' ment
> something in the few MB range running compressed MTD filesystems.
[...]
> 
> Your opinions?

I'm not sure what's the point in having the man pages in an embedded
system -- it is not supposed to be a development environment.

Anyway there are many many embedded systems that still have just
"a few MB" of flash so if this is done, please make it optional.

Guillermo Rodriguez

-- 
ptxdist mailing list
ptxdist@pengutronix.de