[ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Erwin Rol]

Hey all,

The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few 
years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and all 
the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to compile it 
from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core 3GHz) but even 
if it was twice as fast it would still compile over and hour.

So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project 
release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow 
this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.

What I would like to do is this;

1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version that.
2) build my own applications.
3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
4) goto 2

Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?

TIA,

Erwin





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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Bart De Vos]

Hello,

We have some kind of similar setup in which we split our root file 
system and the customers filesystem. In runtime the customers filesystem 
is mounted on a fixed point (/opt). Off-course we have designed this 
separation from the start, we have 2 separated filesystems. For the 
second filesystem you can use just another ptxdist configfile. I don't 
know whether you can merge 2 file system images together with ptxdist. 
But for this purpose a simple script can automate this.

Another approach can be to support a list of configfiles in stead of 
only one. This will give you a single image file which was what you 'v 
been asking for in the first place.

Are there any plans to support a list of configfiles?

Kind regards,
Bart.

On 10/28/2011 10:21 AM, Erwin Rol wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few 
> years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and all 
> the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to compile 
> it from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core 3GHz) but 
> even if it was twice as fast it would still compile over and hour.
>
> So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project 
> release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow 
> this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.
>
> What I would like to do is this;
>
> 1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version that.
> 2) build my own applications.
> 3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
> 4) goto 2
>
> Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?
>
> TIA,
>
> Erwin
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Bart De Vos
Development Engineer
mailto:bart.devos@eia.be

EIA Electronics
Vluchtenburgstraat  3
B-2630 Aartselaar  (Belgium)
phone	: +32(0)3 870 85 29
fax    	: +32(0)3 877 14 72
website	: http://www.eia.be/
--------------------------------------------------
Basically, perfect development is impossible.
Development can be fast, good and cheap. Pick two!
— Larry Wall
--------------------------------------------------


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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Erwin Rol]

Hallo Bart,

On 28-10-2011 10:38, Bart De Vos wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We have some kind of similar setup in which we split our root file
> system and the customers filesystem. In runtime the customers filesystem
> is mounted on a fixed point (/opt). Off-course we have designed this
> separation from the start, we have 2 separated filesystems. For the
> second filesystem you can use just another ptxdist configfile. I don't
> know whether you can merge 2 file system images together with ptxdist.
> But for this purpose a simple script can automate this.

That would be an option too. I could easily deal with 2 filesystems. But 
how do you build the second (user) project? It seems you need to 
duplicate almost all settings in the second config file. And that is 
very error prone in my eyes.

> Another approach can be to support a list of configfiles in stead of
> only one. This will give you a single image file which was what you 'v
> been asking for in the first place.

Shouldn't it already be possible to do something like this;

OS project create ptxdistconfig and platformconfig

Than in the user project include the OS ptxdistconfig and platformconfig.

But how to tell the user project not to rebuild everything again. That's 
my main problem.

- Erwin


> Are there any plans to support a list of configfiles?
>
> Kind regards,
> Bart.
>
> On 10/28/2011 10:21 AM, Erwin Rol wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few
>> years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and all
>> the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to compile
>> it from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core 3GHz) but
>> even if it was twice as fast it would still compile over and hour.
>>
>> So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project
>> release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow
>> this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.
>>
>> What I would like to do is this;
>>
>> 1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version that.
>> 2) build my own applications.
>> 3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
>> 4) goto 2
>>
>> Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Erwin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Bart De Vos]

Hallo Erwin,

On 10/28/2011 10:46 AM, Erwin Rol wrote:
> Hallo Bart,
>
> On 28-10-2011 10:38, Bart De Vos wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> We have some kind of similar setup in which we split our root file
>> system and the customers filesystem. In runtime the customers filesystem
>> is mounted on a fixed point (/opt). Off-course we have designed this
>> separation from the start, we have 2 separated filesystems. For the
>> second filesystem you can use just another ptxdist configfile. I don't
>> know whether you can merge 2 file system images together with ptxdist.
>> But for this purpose a simple script can automate this.
>
> That would be an option too. I could easily deal with 2 filesystems. 
> But how do you build the second (user) project? It seems you need to 
> duplicate almost all settings in the second config file. And that is 
> very error prone in my eyes.
To be honest, today we don't build the second system with PTXdist, but 
we might do that in the future.
I agree with you: duplication is error prone. I don't see where the 
duplication comes from. On the other hand the root filesystem must be 
able to start services from the second filesystem. (call a script upon 
mounting)
>
>> Another approach can be to support a list of configfiles in stead of
>> only one. This will give you a single image file which was what you 'v
>> been asking for in the first place.
>
> Shouldn't it already be possible to do something like this;
>
> OS project create ptxdistconfig and platformconfig
>
> Than in the user project include the OS ptxdistconfig and platformconfig.
>
> But how to tell the user project not to rebuild everything again. 
> That's my main problem.
I don't have an answer on that, sorry.
>
> - Erwin

/Bart.
>
>
>> Are there any plans to support a list of configfiles?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Bart.
>>
>> On 10/28/2011 10:21 AM, Erwin Rol wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few
>>> years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and all
>>> the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to compile
>>> it from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core 3GHz) but
>>> even if it was twice as fast it would still compile over and hour.
>>>
>>> So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project
>>> release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow
>>> this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.
>>>
>>> What I would like to do is this;
>>>
>>> 1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version 
>>> that.
>>> 2) build my own applications.
>>> 3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
>>> 4) goto 2
>>>
>>> Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>>
>>> Erwin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Bart De Vos
Development Engineer
mailto:bart.devos@eia.be

EIA Electronics
Vluchtenburgstraat  3
B-2630 Aartselaar  (Belgium)
phone	: +32(0)3 870 85 29
fax    	: +32(0)3 877 14 72
website	: http://www.eia.be/
--------------------------------------------------
Basically, perfect development is impossible.
Development can be fast, good and cheap. Pick two!
— Larry Wall
--------------------------------------------------


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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Michael Olbrich]

Hi,

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:38:00AM +0200, Bart De Vos wrote:
> We have some kind of similar setup in which we split our root file
> system and the customers filesystem. In runtime the customers
> filesystem is mounted on a fixed point (/opt). Off-course we have
> designed this separation from the start, we have 2 separated
> filesystems. For the second filesystem you can use just another
> ptxdist configfile. I don't know whether you can merge 2 file system
> images together with ptxdist. But for this purpose a simple script
> can automate this.

If the second file system is available as a tar-ball you can do:
@$(call install_archive, otherfs, -, -, \
	$(PTXDIST_WORKSPACE)/local_src/otherfs.tar.gz, /)

> Another approach can be to support a list of configfiles in stead of
> only one. This will give you a single image file which was what you
> 'v been asking for in the first place.
> 
> Are there any plans to support a list of configfiles?

I don't understand what you mean with this.

Michael

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
Industrial Linux Solutions                 | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim, Germany | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Bart De Vos]

On 10/28/2011 11:33 AM, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:38:00AM +0200, Bart De Vos wrote:
>    
>> We have some kind of similar setup in which we split our root file
>> system and the customers filesystem. In runtime the customers
>> filesystem is mounted on a fixed point (/opt). Off-course we have
>> designed this separation from the start, we have 2 separated
>> filesystems. For the second filesystem you can use just another
>> ptxdist configfile. I don't know whether you can merge 2 file system
>> images together with ptxdist. But for this purpose a simple script
>> can automate this.
>>      
> If the second file system is available as a tar-ball you can do:
> @$(call install_archive, otherfs, -, -, \
> 	$(PTXDIST_WORKSPACE)/local_src/otherfs.tar.gz, /)
>
>    
>> Another approach can be to support a list of configfiles in stead of
>> only one. This will give you a single image file which was what you
>> 'v been asking for in the first place.
>>
>> Are there any plans to support a list of configfiles?
>>      
> I don't understand what you mean with this.
>    
In the project directory I have a symlink 'selected_ptxconfig'. This 
points to only one file. Is it possible to have this separated in more 
than one file, for example let 'selected_ptxconfig' point to a directory 
and use all the files in there. Hope that's clear.
> Michael
>    
/Bart.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Bart De Vos
Development Engineer
mailto:bart.devos@eia.be

EIA Electronics
Vluchtenburgstraat  3
B-2630 Aartselaar  (Belgium)
phone	: +32(0)3 870 85 29
fax    	: +32(0)3 877 14 72
website	: http://www.eia.be/
--------------------------------------------------
Basically, perfect development is impossible.
Development can be fast, good and cheap. Pick two!
— Larry Wall
--------------------------------------------------


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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Michael Olbrich]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 11:37:51AM +0200, Bart De Vos wrote:
> On 10/28/2011 11:33 AM, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> >>Another approach can be to support a list of configfiles in stead of
> >>only one. This will give you a single image file which was what you
> >>'v been asking for in the first place.
> >>
> >>Are there any plans to support a list of configfiles?
> >I don't understand what you mean with this.
> In the project directory I have a symlink 'selected_ptxconfig'. This
> points to only one file. Is it possible to have this separated in
> more than one file, for example let 'selected_ptxconfig' point to a
> directory and use all the files in there. Hope that's clear.

selected_ptxconfig is usually a link to configs/ptxconfig. I have worked
with BSPs where I have configs/ptxconfig-foo and configs/ptxconfig-bar. And
then used whichever I needed at the moment.
The question is what do you mean by "use all the files". Are they different
flavours, or parts of on whole system?

Michael

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
Industrial Linux Solutions                 | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim, Germany | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Bart De Vos]

On 10/28/2011 11:45 AM, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 11:37:51AM +0200, Bart De Vos wrote:
>    
>> On 10/28/2011 11:33 AM, Michael Olbrich wrote:
>>      
>>>> Another approach can be to support a list of configfiles in stead of
>>>> only one. This will give you a single image file which was what you
>>>> 'v been asking for in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> Are there any plans to support a list of configfiles?
>>>>          
>>> I don't understand what you mean with this.
>>>        
>> In the project directory I have a symlink 'selected_ptxconfig'. This
>> points to only one file. Is it possible to have this separated in
>> more than one file, for example let 'selected_ptxconfig' point to a
>> directory and use all the files in there. Hope that's clear.
>>      
> selected_ptxconfig is usually a link to configs/ptxconfig. I have worked
> with BSPs where I have configs/ptxconfig-foo and configs/ptxconfig-bar. And
> then used whichever I needed at the moment.
> The question is what do you mean by "use all the files". Are they different
> flavours, or parts of on whole system?
>    
They can be both different flavours and individual parts of one bigger 
system. If this feature is supported, you can use it as you wish.
> Michael
>    
/Bart.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Bart De Vos
Development Engineer
mailto:bart.devos@eia.be

EIA Electronics
Vluchtenburgstraat  3
B-2630 Aartselaar  (Belgium)
phone	: +32(0)3 870 85 29
fax    	: +32(0)3 877 14 72
website	: http://www.eia.be/
--------------------------------------------------
Basically, perfect development is impossible.
Development can be fast, good and cheap. Pick two!
— Larry Wall
--------------------------------------------------


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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Michael Olbrich]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:21:22AM +0200, Erwin Rol wrote:
> The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few
> years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and
> all the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to
> compile it from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core
> 3GHz) but even if it was twice as fast it would still compile over
> and hour.
> 
> So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project
> release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow
> this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.
> 
> What I would like to do is this;
> 
> 1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version that.

This is stable, right? Fix PTXdist version, no option changes etc.?

> 2) build my own applications.
> 3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
> 4) goto 2
> 
> Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?

Take a look at the PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS/PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS options. With
PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS you get <pkg>->version>-<hash>-dev.tar.gz for most
packages. This is the content of <PKG>_PKGDIR.
With PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS you can specify a folder contain such archives. If
a matching archive is found, the stages up to install are skipped and the
archive is extracted instead. The hash makes sure the sub-options used to
create the archive are the correct ones.
Note: You cannot use your own packages dir. That introduces really strange
circular dependencies.

Michael

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
Industrial Linux Solutions                 | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim, Germany | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Erwin Rol]

On 28-10-2011 11:29, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:21:22AM +0200, Erwin Rol wrote:
>> The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few
>> years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and
>> all the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to
>> compile it from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core
>> 3GHz) but even if it was twice as fast it would still compile over
>> and hour.
>>
>> So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project
>> release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow
>> this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.
>>
>> What I would like to do is this;
>>
>> 1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version that.
>
> This is stable, right? Fix PTXdist version, no option changes etc.?

Yeah that is the idea. Of course like with any other OS/distribution 
there will be updates at some point.

>> 2) build my own applications.
>> 3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
>> 4) goto 2
>>
>> Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?
>
> Take a look at the PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS/PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS options. With
> PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS you get<pkg>->version>-<hash>-dev.tar.gz for most
> packages. This is the content of<PKG>_PKGDIR.
> With PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS you can specify a folder contain such archives. If
> a matching archive is found, the stages up to install are skipped and the
> archive is extracted instead. The hash makes sure the sub-options used to
> create the archive are the correct ones.
> Note: You cannot use your own packages dir. That introduces really strange
> circular dependencies.

I looked into that a bit, but my problem are the configuration files. If 
I understand the idea correct you start with two exactly the same setups 
(same ptxdistconfig and pladformconfig) and than say the first setup 
should "create packages" and the second setup should "use packages".

Is it possible to somehow "reference" to the prebuild system and prevent 
the user from changing the settings that are in common with that 
prebuild system?

- Erwin


> Michael
>


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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Michael Olbrich]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:05:06PM +0200, Erwin Rol wrote:
> On 28-10-2011 11:29, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> >On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:21:22AM +0200, Erwin Rol wrote:
> >>The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few
> >>years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and
> >>all the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to
> >>compile it from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core
> >>3GHz) but even if it was twice as fast it would still compile over
> >>and hour.
> >>
> >>So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project
> >>release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow
> >>this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.
> >>
> >>What I would like to do is this;
> >>
> >>1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version that.
> >
> >This is stable, right? Fix PTXdist version, no option changes etc.?
> 
> Yeah that is the idea. Of course like with any other OS/distribution
> there will be updates at some point.
> 
> >>2) build my own applications.
> >>3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
> >>4) goto 2
> >>
> >>Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?
> >
> >Take a look at the PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS/PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS options. With
> >PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS you get<pkg>->version>-<hash>-dev.tar.gz for most
> >packages. This is the content of<PKG>_PKGDIR.
> >With PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS you can specify a folder contain such archives. If
> >a matching archive is found, the stages up to install are skipped and the
> >archive is extracted instead. The hash makes sure the sub-options used to
> >create the archive are the correct ones.
> >Note: You cannot use your own packages dir. That introduces really strange
> >circular dependencies.
> 
> I looked into that a bit, but my problem are the configuration
> files. If I understand the idea correct you start with two exactly
> the same setups (same ptxdistconfig and pladformconfig) and than say
> the first setup should "create packages" and the second setup should
> "use packages".
> 
> Is it possible to somehow "reference" to the prebuild system and
> prevent the user from changing the settings that are in common with
> that prebuild system?

No, but if you change an option, then the affected package is built again
instead of using the pre-built archive. You won't get a broken system,
you'll just rebuild more.

Michael

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
Industrial Linux Solutions                 | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim, Germany | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
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Re: [ptxdist] General Ptxdist usecase question

[Flavio de Castro Alves Filho]

Hello Erwin,

I would encourage you use the pre-built packages approach from
Ptxdist, as suggested.

The main issue will be managing the packages correctly.

For now, I'm not using this approach. But, for bigger systems, it
seems to be inevitable.

Best regards,

Flavio


2011/10/28 Michael Olbrich <m.olbrich@pengutronix.de>:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:05:06PM +0200, Erwin Rol wrote:
>> On 28-10-2011 11:29, Michael Olbrich wrote:
>> >On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:21:22AM +0200, Erwin Rol wrote:
>> >>The projects I use Ptxdist for have grown in size over the last few
>> >>years, they now include mono, gtkwebkit, boost, clutter, gtk3 and
>> >>all the Xorg stuff. That means it now takes more than 2 hours to
>> >>compile it from scratch. The machine is not the fastest (only 4 core
>> >>3GHz) but even if it was twice as fast it would still compile over
>> >>and hour.
>> >>
>> >>So I am looking for a way to prevent a full rebuild on every project
>> >>release. There seem to be some features in Ptxdist that should allow
>> >>this, but I could not really figure out how to use them.
>> >>
>> >>What I would like to do is this;
>> >>
>> >>1) Build an OS with all the Xorg, mono, gtk, etc. stuff and version that.
>> >
>> >This is stable, right? Fix PTXdist version, no option changes etc.?
>>
>> Yeah that is the idea. Of course like with any other OS/distribution
>> there will be updates at some point.
>>
>> >>2) build my own applications.
>> >>3) combine the results from step 1 and 2 into an image for flashing
>> >>4) goto 2
>> >>
>> >>Is it possible to do this with Ptxdist and if so, how ?
>> >
>> >Take a look at the PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS/PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS options. With
>> >PROJECT_CREATE_DEVPKGS you get<pkg>->version>-<hash>-dev.tar.gz for most
>> >packages. This is the content of<PKG>_PKGDIR.
>> >With PROJECT_USE_DEVPKGS you can specify a folder contain such archives. If
>> >a matching archive is found, the stages up to install are skipped and the
>> >archive is extracted instead. The hash makes sure the sub-options used to
>> >create the archive are the correct ones.
>> >Note: You cannot use your own packages dir. That introduces really strange
>> >circular dependencies.
>>
>> I looked into that a bit, but my problem are the configuration
>> files. If I understand the idea correct you start with two exactly
>> the same setups (same ptxdistconfig and pladformconfig) and than say
>> the first setup should "create packages" and the second setup should
>> "use packages".
>>
>> Is it possible to somehow "reference" to the prebuild system and
>> prevent the user from changing the settings that are in common with
>> that prebuild system?
>
> No, but if you change an option, then the affected package is built again
> instead of using the pre-built archive. You won't get a broken system,
> you'll just rebuild more.
>
> Michael
>
> --
> Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
> Industrial Linux Solutions                 | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
> Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim, Germany | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
> Amtsgericht Hildesheim, HRA 2686           | Fax:   +49-5121-206917-5555 |
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