[ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Jon Ringle]

I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.08.0 for running on our device that
has 64MB or physical ram.
With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
daemon-reload now fails:

$ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
buffer of 16.0M is enforced.

Has anyone else encountered this issue?
What is the recommended way to handle this? I'm hesitant to increase
the size of /run in fstab because of the limited RAM I have available.

Thanks
-Jon

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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Jon Ringle]

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 2:32 PM Jon Ringle <jon@ringle.org> wrote:
>
> I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.08.0 for running on our device that
correction. I meant ptxdist-2020.10.0

> has 64MB or physical ram.
> With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> daemon-reload now fails:
>
> $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
>
> Has anyone else encountered this issue?
> What is the recommended way to handle this? I'm hesitant to increase
> the size of /run in fstab because of the limited RAM I have available.
>
> Thanks
> -Jon

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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Ladislav Michl]

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.08.0 for running on our device that
> has 64MB or physical ram.

Same here (but running ptxdist-2020.10.0)

> With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> daemon-reload now fails:
> 
> $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
> 
> Has anyone else encountered this issue?
> What is the recommended way to handle this? I'm hesitant to increase
> the size of /run in fstab because of the limited RAM I have available.

I lowered RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN with hope for the best. In my scenario,
daemon-reload is almost never called - only in case technician is doing
some tests on device and there is always watchdog to fix failed software.

(we are slowly reaching point where this devices will be unable to run
recent kernel and systemd)

	ladis

> Thanks
> -Jon
> 
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> ptxdist@pengutronix.de
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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Jon Ringle]

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-mips.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our device that
> > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > daemon-reload now fails:
> >
> > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
> >
> > Has anyone else encountered this issue?
> > What is the recommended way to handle this? I'm hesitant to increase
> > the size of /run in fstab because of the limited RAM I have available.
>
> I lowered RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN with hope for the best. In my scenario,
> daemon-reload is almost never called - only in case technician is doing
> some tests on device and there is always watchdog to fix failed software.

Yeah, I noticed that systemd hardcoded the value of
RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN to 16MB.
What did you patch your value to be?

Our firmware update script calls `systemctl daemon-reload` after
installing an updated ipk package which then leads to failing to
restart our application service

-Jon

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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Ladislav Michl]

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:57:27AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-mips.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our device that
> > > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > > daemon-reload now fails:
> > >
> > > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> > > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
> > >
> > > Has anyone else encountered this issue?
> > > What is the recommended way to handle this? I'm hesitant to increase
> > > the size of /run in fstab because of the limited RAM I have available.
> >
> > I lowered RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN with hope for the best. In my scenario,
> > daemon-reload is almost never called - only in case technician is doing
> > some tests on device and there is always watchdog to fix failed software.
> 
> Yeah, I noticed that systemd hardcoded the value of
> RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN to 16MB.
> What did you patch your value to be?

1MB, previously there was no such check and it was added to fix
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5016
and those 16MB seems to be just a number big enough...

> Our firmware update script calls `systemctl daemon-reload` after
> installing an updated ipk package which then leads to failing to
> restart our application service

Btw, we are using rauc and casync to update firmware, so device gets
rebooted once done - but casync is storage hungry as well, so data
partition is sacrificed for update purposes and casync's TMP is set
to point there; all logged data are downloaded and erased before
firmware update begins.

	ladis

> -Jon
> 
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> ptxdist@pengutronix.de
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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Michael Olbrich]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 09:27:54AM +0200, Ladislav Michl wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:57:27AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-mips.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our device that
> > > > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > > > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > > > daemon-reload now fails:
> > > >
> > > > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > > > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > > > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> > > > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone else encountered this issue?
> > > > What is the recommended way to handle this? I'm hesitant to increase
> > > > the size of /run in fstab because of the limited RAM I have available.
> > >
> > > I lowered RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN with hope for the best. In my scenario,
> > > daemon-reload is almost never called - only in case technician is doing
> > > some tests on device and there is always watchdog to fix failed software.
> > 
> > Yeah, I noticed that systemd hardcoded the value of
> > RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN to 16MB.
> > What did you patch your value to be?
> 
> 1MB, previously there was no such check and it was added to fix
> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5016
> and those 16MB seems to be just a number big enough...

For most embedded systemd 16M is probably overkill. But on a server with
thousands of units, it is probably reasonable. A real fix should probably
be something that scales with the number of units.

Michael

-- 
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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Michael Olbrich]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 08:28:11AM +0100, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 09:27:54AM +0200, Ladislav Michl wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:57:27AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-mips.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our device that
> > > > > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > > > > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > > > > daemon-reload now fails:
> > > > >
> > > > > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > > > > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > > > > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> > > > > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.

Out of curiosity: What is filling up /run for you? I've always had plenty
of space in /run.

Michael

> > > > > Has anyone else encountered this issue?
> > > > > What is the recommended way to handle this? I'm hesitant to increase
> > > > > the size of /run in fstab because of the limited RAM I have available.
> > > >
> > > > I lowered RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN with hope for the best. In my scenario,
> > > > daemon-reload is almost never called - only in case technician is doing
> > > > some tests on device and there is always watchdog to fix failed software.
> > > 
> > > Yeah, I noticed that systemd hardcoded the value of
> > > RELOAD_DISK_SPACE_MIN to 16MB.
> > > What did you patch your value to be?
> > 
> > 1MB, previously there was no such check and it was added to fix
> > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5016
> > and those 16MB seems to be just a number big enough...
> 
> For most embedded systemd 16M is probably overkill. But on a server with
> thousands of units, it is probably reasonable. A real fix should probably
> be something that scales with the number of units.

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
Steuerwalder Str. 21                       | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
31137 Hildesheim, Germany                  | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
Amtsgericht Hildesheim, HRA 2686           | Fax:   +49-5121-206917-5555 |

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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Jon Ringle]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 3:59 AM Michael Olbrich
<m.olbrich@pengutronix.de> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 08:28:11AM +0100, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 09:27:54AM +0200, Ladislav Michl wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:57:27AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-mips.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our device that
> > > > > > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > > > > > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > > > > > daemon-reload now fails:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > > > > > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > > > > > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> > > > > > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
>
> Out of curiosity: What is filling up /run for you? I've always had plenty
> of space in /run.

On my target, it only has 64M of DRAM. After the kernel has reserved
its memory, only 55.5M is available for user space. It seems that /run
is implicitly using a size=20% that is defined for /tmp in fstab:
$ grep tmpfs /etc/fstab
tmpfs   /tmp                    tmpfs
nosuid,nodev,mode=1777,size=20%         0 0
tmpfs   /run                    tmpfs
nosuid,nodev,strictatime,mode=0755      0 0
tmpfs   /var/lock               tmpfs
nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=0755,size=1M   0 0
tmpfs   /var/tmp                tmpfs
nosuid,nodev,mode=1777,size=20%         0 0
$ df -h|grep tmpfs
devtmpfs                  4.0M         0      4.0M   0% /dev
tmpfs                    27.7M         0     27.7M   0% /dev/shm
tmpfs                    11.1M    464.0K     10.6M   4% /run
tmpfs                     4.0M         0      4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs                    11.1M      2.9M      8.1M  27% /tmp
tmpfs                     1.0M         0      1.0M   0% /var/lock
tmpfs                    11.1M         0     11.1M   0% /var/tmp

So, to begin with, /run with a size of 11.1M is already too small even
if completely unused to meet the criteria imposed by systemctl
daemon-reload

-Jon

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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Michael Olbrich]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 09:27:35AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 3:59 AM Michael Olbrich
> <m.olbrich@pengutronix.de> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 08:28:11AM +0100, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 09:27:54AM +0200, Ladislav Michl wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:57:27AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-mips.org> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > > > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our device that
> > > > > > > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > > > > > > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > > > > > > daemon-reload now fails:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > > > > > > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > > > > > > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a safety
> > > > > > > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
> >
> > Out of curiosity: What is filling up /run for you? I've always had plenty
> > of space in /run.
> 
> On my target, it only has 64M of DRAM. After the kernel has reserved
> its memory, only 55.5M is available for user space. It seems that /run

Huh, I haven't used a system with less than 256M of SDRAM in a long time.
I'm living in a different filter bubble... :-)


> is implicitly using a size=20% that is defined for /tmp in fstab:
> $ grep tmpfs /etc/fstab
> tmpfs   /tmp                    tmpfs
> nosuid,nodev,mode=1777,size=20%         0 0
> tmpfs   /run                    tmpfs
> nosuid,nodev,strictatime,mode=0755      0 0
> tmpfs   /var/lock               tmpfs
> nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=0755,size=1M   0 0
> tmpfs   /var/tmp                tmpfs
> nosuid,nodev,mode=1777,size=20%         0 0
> $ df -h|grep tmpfs
> devtmpfs                  4.0M         0      4.0M   0% /dev
> tmpfs                    27.7M         0     27.7M   0% /dev/shm
> tmpfs                    11.1M    464.0K     10.6M   4% /run
> tmpfs                     4.0M         0      4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> tmpfs                    11.1M      2.9M      8.1M  27% /tmp
> tmpfs                     1.0M         0      1.0M   0% /var/lock
> tmpfs                    11.1M         0     11.1M   0% /var/tmp
> 
> So, to begin with, /run with a size of 11.1M is already too small even
> if completely unused to meet the criteria imposed by systemctl
> daemon-reload

I thinks that's worth a bug report for systemd. I'm not sure if someone
will actually do something about it, unless you write the patch yourself.
At least it reminds people that systemd is used on embedded systems with
very little resources.

Michael


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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Alexander Dahl]

Hei hei,

Am Mittwoch, 28. Oktober 2020, 18:40:58 CET schrieb Michael Olbrich:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 09:27:35AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 3:59 AM Michael Olbrich
> > 
> > <m.olbrich@pengutronix.de> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 08:28:11AM +0100, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 09:27:54AM +0200, Ladislav Michl wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:57:27AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-
mips.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > > > > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our
> > > > > > > > device that
> > > > > > > > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > > > > > > > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > > > > > > > daemon-reload now fails:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > > > > > > > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > > > > > > > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a
> > > > > > > > safety
> > > > > > > > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
> > > 
> > > Out of curiosity: What is filling up /run for you? I've always had
> > > plenty
> > > of space in /run.
> > 
> > On my target, it only has 64M of DRAM. After the kernel has reserved
> > its memory, only 55.5M is available for user space. It seems that /run
> 
> Huh, I haven't used a system with less than 256M of SDRAM in a long time.
> I'm living in a different filter bubble... :-)

For the record: we still work with boards designed ten years ago with 32 MiB 
RAM and run almost recent ptxdist and LTS kernel. I assume systemd + 
additional dependencies (udev, dbus, …) would make those completly unusable.

Our new boards have 128 MiB though.

> 
> > is implicitly using a size=20% that is defined for /tmp in fstab:
> > $ grep tmpfs /etc/fstab
> > tmpfs   /tmp                    tmpfs
> > nosuid,nodev,mode=1777,size=20%         0 0
> > tmpfs   /run                    tmpfs
> > nosuid,nodev,strictatime,mode=0755      0 0
> > tmpfs   /var/lock               tmpfs
> > nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=0755,size=1M   0 0
> > tmpfs   /var/tmp                tmpfs
> > nosuid,nodev,mode=1777,size=20%         0 0
> > $ df -h|grep tmpfs
> > devtmpfs                  4.0M         0      4.0M   0% /dev
> > tmpfs                    27.7M         0     27.7M   0% /dev/shm
> > tmpfs                    11.1M    464.0K     10.6M   4% /run
> > tmpfs                     4.0M         0      4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> > tmpfs                    11.1M      2.9M      8.1M  27% /tmp
> > tmpfs                     1.0M         0      1.0M   0% /var/lock
> > tmpfs                    11.1M         0     11.1M   0% /var/tmp
> > 
> > So, to begin with, /run with a size of 11.1M is already too small even
> > if completely unused to meet the criteria imposed by systemctl
> > daemon-reload
> 
> I thinks that's worth a bug report for systemd. I'm not sure if someone
> will actually do something about it, unless you write the patch yourself.
> At least it reminds people that systemd is used on embedded systems with
> very little resources.

If someone creates such a report, please let me know.

A




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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Michael Olbrich]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 08:13:44AM +0100, Alexander Dahl wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 28. Oktober 2020, 18:40:58 CET schrieb Michael Olbrich:
> > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 09:27:35AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 3:59 AM Michael Olbrich
> > > <m.olbrich@pengutronix.de> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 08:28:11AM +0100, Michael Olbrich wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 09:27:54AM +0200, Ladislav Michl wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:57:27AM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Michl <ladis@linux-
> mips.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 02:32:49PM -0400, Jon Ringle wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I recently updated to ptxdist-2020.10.0 for running on our
> > > > > > > > > device that
> > > > > > > > > has 64MB or physical ram.
> > > > > > > > > With systemd-246.6 that is installed,I'm finding that systemd
> > > > > > > > > daemon-reload now fails:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > $ sudo systemctl daemon-reload
> > > > > > > > > Failed to reload daemon: Refusing to reload, not enough space
> > > > > > > > > available on /run/systemd. Currently, 10.6M are free, but a
> > > > > > > > > safety
> > > > > > > > > buffer of 16.0M is enforced.
> > > > 
> > > > Out of curiosity: What is filling up /run for you? I've always had
> > > > plenty
> > > > of space in /run.
> > > 
> > > On my target, it only has 64M of DRAM. After the kernel has reserved
> > > its memory, only 55.5M is available for user space. It seems that /run
> > 
> > Huh, I haven't used a system with less than 256M of SDRAM in a long time.
> > I'm living in a different filter bubble... :-)
> 
> For the record: we still work with boards designed ten years ago with 32 MiB 
> RAM and run almost recent ptxdist and LTS kernel.

Good to hear that.

> I assume systemd + 
> additional dependencies (udev, dbus, …) would make those completly unusable.

So I played a bit with the qemu in DistroKit. I didn't even get any kernel
output with 32M RAM....
But it boots with 64M. And with just systemd, udev and journald running,
about half the memory is still free, so that would be available for
applications. And maybe 5-6M is used by those three processes, if I read
the number correctly.
The kernel is not trimmed for such low memory usage, so I think booting
with 32M RAM with systemd might be possible, but the overhead is probably
too much for real use-cases. But with 64M it should be fine.

> Our new boards have 128 MiB though.

Nothing with graphics i guess? I usually argue, that 512M is not enough...
to run chromium :-).

Michael

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Steuerwalder Str. 21                       | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
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Re: [ptxdist] systemctl daemon-reload fails

[Alexander Dahl]

Hei hei,

Am Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2020, 09:05:38 CET schrieb Michael Olbrich:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 08:13:44AM +0100, Alexander Dahl wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 28. Oktober 2020, 18:40:58 CET schrieb Michael Olbrich:

…

> > > > On my target, it only has 64M of DRAM. After the kernel has reserved
> > > > its memory, only 55.5M is available for user space. It seems that /run
> > > 
> > > Huh, I haven't used a system with less than 256M of SDRAM in a long
> > > time.
> > > I'm living in a different filter bubble... :-)
> > 
> > For the record: we still work with boards designed ten years ago with 32
> > MiB RAM and run almost recent ptxdist and LTS kernel.
> 
> Good to hear that.
> 
> > I assume systemd +
> > additional dependencies (udev, dbus, …) would make those completly
> > unusable.
> So I played a bit with the qemu in DistroKit. I didn't even get any kernel
> output with 32M RAM....
> But it boots with 64M. And with just systemd, udev and journald running,
> about half the memory is still free, so that would be available for
> applications. And maybe 5-6M is used by those three processes, if I read
> the number correctly.
> The kernel is not trimmed for such low memory usage, so I think booting
> with 32M RAM with systemd might be possible, but the overhead is probably
> too much for real use-cases. But with 64M it should be fine.

We already actually have problems with applications eating up almost all the 
memory. systemd and friends would be the straw breaking the camel's back. Our 
kernel is trimmed down and we use initmethod-bbinit as you might have guessed.

> 
> > Our new boards have 128 MiB though.
> 
> Nothing with graphics i guess? I usually argue, that 512M is not enough...
> to run chromium :-).

What I work with or develop for are industrial communication gateways. 
No graphics, no USB, some LEDs and a reset button are the only interfaces for 
humans. ;-)

Greets
Alex




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